How did you feel upon coming to Vilnius and finding that the world has their eyes on Vilnius because of the NATO Summit? Also, for some of the American students, it was their first trip abroad, at least to Europe. So how did the rhythm changed from America to Vilnius, Europe?
P. L. I have been here before, so it was like coming back home again. It was really exciting. And, you know, everything is fairly slow in the summer, so it's nice. Also, the students are coming here too, and some of them, as you said, have never been abroad before, so it's very exciting for them, and everything is new. We received a good introduction and then, you know, school started, and it was pretty busy. The school itself looks a lot like what we do in California, it's fast-paced. Our students recognized that way of teaching, whereas the Lithuanian students and the Ukrainian students were probably surprised that things were moving really fast.
E. S. I guess I'll add about the NATO Summit experience. I felt very proud of the moment. I was proud of the President Joe Biden's speech. I thought it was a good speech because he touched important moments in Lithuanian history, such as the tragedy of peaceful people being killed by soviet tanks while they stood for freedom, including a VILNIUS TECH student. Then he moved through the topic of independence in 20 minutes. The Summit was a moment for Vilnius to shine around the entire world, which was great. I think we did well.
Speaking of American students, we told them that they are representatives not only of the CalPoly but also of the United States in some regards, and I think they're taking that seriously. They are performing well. But they're also having fun, they're connected to the social life a little bit in the evenings. We work hard, so it's not a vacation. And we marketed it that way so that the students would be psychologically prepared. Even then, I think they were still a little shocked at the pace, but it's good.
I would like to ask about the dynamics within the group. How do Lithuanian and Ukrainian students come together with Americans? Do they collaborate effectively despite the different cultural backgrounds between the United States and Europe?
P. L. At the beginning, it seemed like those two worlds were somewhat separate in terms of how we approached teaching and what happens in the classroom. The Lithuanian and Ukrainian students were initially quiet while our American students were louder. However, I believe they are starting to blend together now, both sides are making efforts to connect with each other. Especially during the recent trip to the Baltic seaside, there was an opportunity for them to actually talk and interact. In class, things happen quickly, leaving little time for socializing. There's homework and other tasks throughout the week. However, during the trips, I see them getting to know each other better, both among the VILNIUS TECH and Cal Poly students, but also within the Cal Poly student group – many of them didn't know each other well before coming here, so this experience benefits them.
E. S. I think the Lithuanian and Ukrainian students are typically very, very quiet. As the founder of this program since 2013, I have observed that Vilnius students tend to look around and try not to be noticed when they don't understand something. But if Cal Poly students don't understand something, they immediately ask for help. One reason for this difference is that Cal Poly students pay a substantial tuition fee, even though we are a public institution. Personally, I don't see this as a negative thing – they value their education and never miss a class, not even five minutes of it, because they are investing in it. Peter and I approach our role as educators like Broadway actors. The audience is out there, and the ticket is expensive. We have to be ready and fully prepared from day one. I believe this is a significant difference. I would love for your faculty to watch our teaching. Part of our mission here, which includes having Lithuanian students, is to build a bridge with your institution.
Speaking about architecture and civil engineering, you've been, as you mentioned, to Vilnius many times. Vilnius is growing rapidly, with new buildings emerging every day. We have our traditions and heritage, but we also embrace a modern approach to architecture. How do you view it from a professional standpoint, the growth of the city?
P. L. Looking at the physical surroundings, every time I come here, I can definitely see changes. New buildings have been constructed, and old buildings have been refurbished. There is a strong push to renovate everything in Vilnius. I believe it's a positive development as the buildings are being brought up to modern standards. It's very quaint and enjoyable to be a citizen here and walk everywhere. That's one of my favorite things to do.
E. S. My perspective is a little different because I am Lithuanian, and I tend to view things somewhat skeptically, to some extent. Obviously, progress needs to happen. Obviously, we need glass towers with office buildings, there's no question about it. However, nobody will come to Vilnius to visit a glass tower, right? People come to visit the old town and even the old cinema theatre Lietuva. The fact that this building was destroyed, which was a cool modernist building, as far as I'm concerned, you know, I think you lose something when you do that. Of course, I can't say whether everything should be preserved or not, since I'm still an outsider – it's for you to decide.
The worst example for me is the Sports Palace, which happens to be my favorite building. This building is extremely important. Anybody around the world who is an expert on long span structures recognizes that this is a landmark structure, a historical structure of worldwide importance. However, it's a structure built during Soviet occupation and it's built on a Jewish cemetery, so you have all this complexity which is political. It's not architectural history at all. But it’s the legacy of Antanas Panavas who worked on it. I am studying his work. He was imprisoned by soviets during the first occupation and then deported to Siberia at the beginning of the second occupation (together with his parents). Seeing that building every year breaks my heart, and it seems to deteriorate further each year. If somebody says they're going to tear it down, I will go and literally chain myself to the building.
There are no plans to demolish this building. Furthermore, regarding the historical Jewish cemetery, we are actively and closely working with our esteemed Jewish community on this matter. Speaking of historical sites, there are numerous conversion projects happening in Vilnius. Do you believe that such conversions are also a way of preserving them by breathing new life into these buildings?
P. L. I agree, buildings should be used, I mean, they're not just museum pieces. Therefore, if their context can be preserved and they can be put to important and useful purposes, I think that's great. It doesn't necessarily have to be limited to museums since we have so many of them. It could also be something, you know, practical, as long as its location and impression are maintained.
E. S. Both of us have independently noticed something charming about the decay of these buildings, right? Take, for example, the Franciscan Church right behind us. In its terribly decayed state, it is actually my favorite church in the entire city. I don't particularly enjoy it when it's being restored with gold. There is something magical about walking down the street and seeing them. These buildings have survived for hundreds of years, enduring wars and everything. They are still standing. So, what if they are a bit beat up? One of my favorite things to do in Vilnius, as you go down the street, all of a sudden you can see, oh, there is a little entry into the backyard. I'm just going to go in there and check it out. It's a glimpse into a different time, perhaps resembling the year 1750 rather than 2023. Imagining what it was like back then is incredibly captivating.
Speaking about the city, a crucial part is its people, the citizens who bring the city to life. They are actively changing the face of the city, for example, through the creation of wall paintings and engagement in similar activities.
P. L. The modern history of Lithuania, you know, really begins in the early 90s. Since then, there has been a tremendous amount of change. It is embedded in the people here that they want to improve their surroundings and they aspire to something greater. There is plenty of room for growth, allowing for an incredible amount of creativity among the people. You can see it in the things like paintings on the walls, with their curious symbolism that you might not have previously considered. I find the artists and their sense of humor quite amusing. Just across the street, at the Museum of Modern Art, there's a little sculpture of this little guy sitting on the ground with his head inside a sphere. I'm curious about its meaning, but it's a simple and fun piece. I haven't seen anything quite like it before, and I think it's a great idea. Overall, there are many good ideas emerging from the creativity of this generation in Lithuania, specifically in Vilnius.
Let's discuss architecture, engineering, and sustainability. The entire world is engaged in discussions about sustainability. Do you incorporate this mindset into your classes? In other words, do you recommend students to adopt a sustainable thinking approach to design?
P. L. I believe that a significant part of what we do revolves around solving the challenges ahead of us, such as designing buildings. Sustainability sometimes appears to be more of a topic of conversation rather than a practice we actively engage in. However, I do notice a growing emphasis on sustainability amongst students. I can't say that I'm teaching necessarily very differently, but the students, whenever I go on trips with them, they are always very interested in hearing about projects related to sustainability and reducing carbon footprint. They discuss it more frequently and they want to work for companies that prioritize sustainability. It seems to be a generational shift that we need to embrace and move forward with.
E. S. Peter teaches reinforced concrete, which is the worst material you could possibly use. Despite its drawbacks, it is still necessary to teach reinforced concrete because it is not going away. Although it is the source of many of our problems. In my own teachings, I focus on a more efficient structural approach, which involves curved structures. A curved structure, by its very nature similar to a hen's or chicken's egg, possesses high stiffness and thinness. This area is my specialty. However, we only touch upon it with the upper-level students at Cal Poly, and not extensively.
P. L. I believe we also offer at least one course that focuses on repairing and upgrading buildings. In California, we avoid tearing down structures due to significant concerns regarding seismic activities like earthquakes. It poses a considerable challenge. However, it is technically possible to refurbish and repurpose old buildings. We dedicate a course to upgrading existing structures, either out of choice or due to cost-effectiveness compared to constructing new ones. There is also a push to design buildings a little bit more general, allowing for future repurposing, rather than being locked to a specific purpose. This way, instead of demolishing a building once its initial purpose is fulfilled, it can be repurposed for other uses. Sustainability and adaptability are on our minds.
And for the final question, what are your plans moving forward with this school? Do you have any additional activities in mind for future visits to Vilnius? Have you discovered new ideas or approaches to incorporate into your classes or engage with the students?
E.S. I think the academic program will remain the same for the next few years; we have no plans to make any changes. However, I do see improvements in the cultural program. We are now adding a visit to Tbilisi, which is exciting for us. Previously, we used to have two trips within Lithuania, so I anticipate that Nida or Palanga will continue to be part of the program next year. I think maybe next year we'll go to Kiev. Hope Ukraine will be free and thriving. Hope we'll go to Kiev next year.
