L24: You were a Vice Minister of Education and Science from January 2013 until August 2014. Now you are the Councilor of the Vilnius city fighting for Polish schools. What in your opinion is the most dangerous when talking about Polish education in Lithuania?

Edita Tamošiūnaitė: It is the atmosphere of instability and chaos, which the authorities are trying to create around Polish schools. It can be especially felt in Vilnius, where several schools are endangered. Both parents of students and teachers do not feel sure about their future. In my opinion, stability is a very important factor in the field of education. Lithuania has regained its independence 25 years ago, but we still lack the feeling of stability. I graduated 21 years ago, when the education reform has just started. And it is still going on without any news about the future. I think that such reform simply lowers the quality of teaching instead of improving it. It is very bad, that there will be no secondary school as of 2017. I am sure, that the reform was not well-thought- out.

L24: There are a lot of reorganizations and accreditations of schools taking place this year. Not many people know what the real aim of liquidation of some secondary schools is. What do you think about this reform and its effects on Polish educational institutions in Lithuania?

Edita Tamošiūnaitė: When in 2013 the Electoral Action of Poles in Lithuania was in the ruling coalition, the party managed to liberalize the criteria regarding the minimal number of students in classes that prior to the change were inappropriately excessive. The aim of the reform is to cause spontaneous schools closure. Meanwhile, schools should be really close to any student. A whole range of prevention programs in the field of education is implemented, which are assumed to protect students from the time they leave their homes until they return. But personally I think that prevention is the most effective when the school is nearby so that a parent could always have a possibility to see if everything is ok.

The reform talks a lot about the number of students in classes and the size of schools, while the quality of education does not depend on the size of a school at all. It can be the other way around – the principal and teachers of a small school know their students very well, while in big schools it is much more difficult to know each student and his family.

There are lots of problems concerning the accreditation. In the municipalities ruled by EAPL, the party that cares about the needs of every person, there are no problems experienced neither by Polish schools, nor by Russian or Lithuanian. Even small schools remained in these municipalities. In Vilnius, for example, Vladislovo Sirokomlės Secondary School still does not get its gymnasium accreditation. I am sure, that finally it will be accredited, as it is a really good school with high level of education.

Why the Law on Education was changed in 2011 and then, in 2013, a unified graduation exam of the Lithuanian language has been introduced for the students of schools of national minorities by virtue of than novelization? I would like to mentioned, that the difference in the Lithuanian language teaching in Lithuanian schools and in national minority schools is huge – even 800 hours. Well, the underlying purpose of authorities is that students from Polish and Russian schools could not enter studies funded by the state. The only criterion for entering studies funded by the state is a good result of the Lithuanian language exam. This eliminates very good, talented students from schools of national minorities. The exam must be changed. Currently, a student is not taught how to write and speak correctly, by is required to possess knowledge of literature and interpret various written pieces. I graduated from the Lithuanian Philology department in the Vilnius University and I had to take this kind of exam on my 2nd year of studies! There is no problem if a student wants to choose linguistics or philology, but what about these who want to choose sciences? Not every parent can pay for studies of his or her child studies. So the intention of policymakers is to make fewer Poles, Russians and representatives of other national minorities getting into higher studies.

Nevertheless, we are a tenacious and ambitious nation, our students, especially students of the Polish schools, are very ambitious, they work with tutors, learn additionally, spend a lot of their time to prepare for this exam, to pass it well and enter studies funded by the state. The percentage of graduates from Polish schools getting to studies is really comforting. For example the Vilnius Simono Konarskio Secondary School (the authorities are trying to deprive it the status of a secondary school) has been distinguished among the group of gymnasiums in Vilnius recently. One cannot formally approach very important educational issues, one cannot ruin a school simply because there are, let us say, 5 students less. Only such criteria as quality of education, prevalence of students at universities should prejudge the future and status of the particular institution.

L24: Polish schools in Lithuania have been attacked several times over the last decades. School communities remain in a permanent state of combat readiness. Do you think that such determination could last for long?

Edita Tamošiūnaitė: I think that yes. It has never been easy. We always had to be alert to maintain Polish schools. Parents understand that a student does not go to school only to learn – they know that a school educates, teaches traditions, customs and everything that is close to the nation, to the particular family.

I know many families with two children – one went to a Lithuanian school, but the other one - to a Polish or Russian one, as their parents see that a child who graduated from the Lithuanian school begins to be ashamed of his or her native language! Polish schools will exist as long as parents are aware of this.

Poles do not lack determination. I keep in touch with school communities, including Polish schools in Vilnius, which unfortunately can be degraded to basic schools. They are fighting for their status in courts. Even those schools that have not been degraded understand that we can survive only together. Because if we agree to the depletion of our education, then it is possible that only primary schools will remain in Vilnius in a few years.

The fate of Polish schools has been always problematic. I graduated form a school in Maišiagala, current J. Obrembskio Gymnasium. I remember myself, a student, going with my friends to various rallies and pickets by the Seimas. I think that it was only the determination of parents, teachers and the entire school community that helped Polish schools to survive to this day.

It is sad, that today there are evident violations in the field of education in our state. The situation in courts is also not always clear. We want to believe in justice, but all in all, we can get tired in the end. Meanwhile our determination is still alive. As far as I know, the Simono Konarskio Secondary School is going to submit an application to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg if it does not find any justice in Lithuania. Although the school has lost almost all of its hopes, it wants to fight further.

L24: How do you see the future of Polish schools in Lithuania?

Edita Tamošiūnaitė: I am optimistic about it. Polish schools survived hard times and will survive now too. Determination is what we need. However, parents play the main role in this context. When starting the education of their child, they should ask themselves what education and in what spirit they want for their child.

Parents should trust Polish schools despite all the negative information regarding Polish education, despite the chaos and instability. There is a lot of disinformation which should be avoided. After all, there is someone behind this, someone who has particular benefits out of the whole situation.

I have never met any graduate from a Polish school who would like to turn back the time and learn in a Lithuanian school instead. On the other hand I know many people from families of national minorities who have graduated from a Lithuanian school and they regret about that today. And not because Lithuanian schools are bad, it is just because this is not the right environment for that particular person.

L24: What would you like to wish to the communities of Polish educational institutions in our country?

Edita Tamošiūnaitė: Determination first of all. I also hope that parents will choose Polish schools for their children more often. Polish school is not just an educational institution, but also a cultural centre of a community life. I wish parents not to be fascinated with big schools, as a small school might be even more attractive than a big one. I wish Polish schools to be full of children and their laughter.

After all, I am an optimist. I have met students of Lithuanian universities who have graduated from Polish schools on recent pickets in Vilnius. They take part in such events as they sympathize with current students of endangered schools. It shows us a very important fact: how much graduates of Polish schools identify with their school, they keep in touch with it, cherish the relationship and keep their fingers crossed for it.

L24: Thank you for the conversation.

"This project is co-financed from the funds granted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Poland."